Michelin Pilot Sport 4s for Autocross + Week end fun Car [Archive] (2024)

Lab

14th February 2023, 15:27

I know lots of people loves PS4's as a good compromise for occasional auto-x + week end fun car duties. Saw some threads on general forums.

Trying to find out how good of a choice they are for Autocross. Occasional Auto-x, week end fun car. Not a daily driver but not very keen on dedicated summer autox tires with 200 tread wear.

Thinking of pulling the trigger on Pilot sport 4S. 245 40 17's are $1000 installed at costco. $150 rebate is over by end of February. Continental Extreme Sport 2 was considered but will end up with almost the same price. Hence leaning toward Michelins.

btw my NC is mildly modded with Meister R club race coil overs and some usual goodies , decent camber settings at the front and back.

NFMSM

14th February 2023, 16:34

I think this is another case of, if you wanna be at the pointy end at Autox in a competitive field, there's no replacement for fresh sticky tires, a well set up car, and skill / seat time. If you just wanna have fun, you can drive on anything that passes tech. Most people are somewhere in between I suppose. I decided to run RE-71R on the street because they'll probably time out before I wear them out, but they're definitely a compromise on noise and ride comfort.

That said, Andy Hollis has a great article from 2018 that might help you decide. They sound like a great all-rounder to me. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/tire-test-continental-vs-michelin-mclaren-mp4-12c/

Gord96BRG

15th February 2023, 21:10

I know lots of people loves PS4's as a good compromise for occasional auto-x + week end fun car duties. Saw some threads on general forums.
...
Thinking of pulling the trigger on Pilot sport 4S. 245 40 17's are $1000 installed at costco. $150 rebate is over by end of February. Continental Extreme Sport 2 was considered but will end up with almost the same price. Hence leaning toward Michelins.

The Pilot Sport 4, aka PS4, is a different tire than the Pilot Sport 4S, aka PS4S. Don't confuse them! The PS4 is a sporty tire, but the PS4S is the higher performance sports tire. If you're thinking of autocrossing on them, then make sure you get the PS4S.

NFMSM

16th February 2023, 08:33

foshjowler

16th February 2023, 09:15

What is it about the 200 tw group that doesn't interest you?

I'd make the argument that the 300 tw group of tires (PS4S, EC Sport) is in the no mans land for tires. The AS4 is so good at this point that I see little difference between it and any summer tire on the street, plus they're fine in cold and some snow. The 300 tw group is still a summer tire, so shouldn't be driven in the winter months in most places (I say as it's mid 70s today in North Carolina), but don't offer the grip levels of 200 tw for the occasional autox and/or track day.

Lab

17th February 2023, 00:41

The Pilot Sport 4, aka PS4, is a different tire than the Pilot Sport 4S, aka PS4S. Don't confuse them! The PS4 is a sporty tire, but the PS4S is the higher performance sports tire. If you're thinking of autocrossing on them, then make sure you get the PS4S.

Thanks. As the post says this is regarding Michelin Pilot Sport 4S or PS4S

Lab

17th February 2023, 00:44

What is it about the 200 tw group that doesn't interest you?

I'd make the argument that the 300 tw group of tires (PS4S, EC Sport) is in the no mans land for tires. The AS4 is so good at this point that I see little difference between it and any summer tire on the street, plus they're fine in cold and some snow. The 300 tw group is still a summer tire, so shouldn't be driven in the winter months in most places (I say as it's mid 70s today in North Carolina), but don't offer the grip levels of 200 tw for the occasional autox and/or track day.

In my case snow is not an issue but do get decent amount of rain. While not a daily driver, don't want to be scared to drive in the rain. Most of the autocross focused usual suspects in 200 qT category like Azenis RT660, Dureza zIII, RE711R are horrible in the rain/wet for street driving.

Also the less thread wear of 200 vs 300....whatever its worth.

Since I am ready for a compromise between not trying to set the best time in autocross vs not sliding around on All season tires and have decent grip on the street thinking of Michelins PS4's. Price wise all of these will cost $1K

dps214

17th February 2023, 20:47

Lab

18th February 2023, 12:11

Just to clarify, 200TWs are horrible in standing water. In light rain (roads wet but no puddles) at reasonable temperatures they're usually still better than 300TWs.

Interesting. I dont have much experience with Michelins PS4S or Conti ECS driving on the street on wet conditions. But have have used many 200 qt tires like Falken Azenis, RE71R, A052' on both front and rwd cars on when roads are wet/ no puddles and my experience has been really bad.

NFMSM

18th February 2023, 14:31

Interesting. I dont have much experience with Michelins PS4S or Conti ECS driving on the street on wet conditions. But have have used many 200 qt tires like Falken Azenis, RE71R, A052' on both front and rwd cars on when roads are wet/ no puddles and my experience has been really bad.

That's interesting. I have been impressed by how well my RE-71R handle both wet roads and even standing water. To the point I've tried driving intentionally into water I'd normally avoid just to see how they react - and always been impressed, haven't felt them hydroplane. I live in a wet place (47 inches of rain a year and 127 inches of snow) so wet weather performance was my main worry when I decided to run these all the time. Maybe it's a width thing; I'm running 205/50R15 on my MSM.

Gord96BRG

18th February 2023, 14:38

Michelin Pilot Sport 4s for Autocross + Week end fun Car

I know lots of people loves PS4's as a good compromise for occasional auto-x + week end fun car duties. Saw some threads on general forums.

Trying to find out how good of a choice they are for Autocross. Occasional Auto-x, week end fun car. Not a daily driver but not very keen on dedicated summer autox tires with 200 tread wear.

Thinking of pulling the trigger on Pilot sport 4S. 245 40 17's are $1000 installed at costco. $150 rebate is over by end of February. Continental Extreme Sport 2 was considered but will end up with almost the same price. Hence leaning toward Michelins.

The Pilot Sport 4, aka PS4, is a different tire than the Pilot Sport 4S, aka PS4S. Don't confuse them!

Thanks. As the post says this is regarding Michelin Pilot Sport 4S or PS4S

Thanks for the clarification - the reason I posted about the two different tires is that your first post mixed up plural for PS4 (PS4s), possessive for PS4 (PS4's), then PS4S - so you had two mentions of PS4, one mention of PS4S!

Since I am ready for a compromise between not trying to set the best time in autocross vs not sliding around on All season tires and have decent grip on the street thinking of Michelins PS4's. Price wise all of these will cost $1K

See? After clarifying you wanted to discuss the PS4S, you went back to talking about the PS4 (possessive) :p. Maybe you know which you're talking about, but your writing is confusing them! It's Michelin's fault for an easily confused naming system, but it's on us to be explicitly clear as a result.

Lab

19th February 2023, 12:53

Thanks Gordon:)

Thanks to everyone's inputs. Mostly decided on Michelin PS4S;)

btw Costco promotion of $150 ends on Feb 26

foshjowler

20th February 2023, 09:16

That's interesting. I have been impressed by how well my RE-71R handle both wet roads and even standing water. To the point I've tried driving intentionally into water I'd normally avoid just to see how they react - and always been impressed, haven't felt them hydroplane. I live in a wet place (47 inches of rain a year and 127 inches of snow) so wet weather performance was my main worry when I decided to run these all the time. Maybe it's a width thing; I'm running 205/50R15 on my MSM.

Yeah, my experience with 200 tw has been that they're fine in all but the worst rain. And even then, as long as you're aware that you're on tires that aren't the best in standing water, you're ok. I'd still take them over a lot of the tires people drive around on. The only one I've had issues with are the BFG Rival S, those are B.A.D in the rain. I've owned RE71R, RT660, and Cont EC Force, and they've all been in the acceptable hydroplaning resistance. The new RE71RS and A052 are supposed to be better, but I don't have any experience with them yet.

My Michelin AS4 is better than all of them in heavy rain, but I've never had problems with the 3 aforementioned 200tw if I stuck to the speed limit or flow of traffic.

M.C.calico

22nd February 2023, 00:22

I had a track session in the pouring rain last summer at PPIR in Fountain, CO. I set my fastest lap of the day as it was starting to rain and the track was slightly damp. By the end of the session it was pouring and there was standing water all over the track. I was on Falken 615K+ tires (200 TW, endurance tire) that I had heard conflicting info about in the wet (although GRM gives them a 'B' wet rating).

I found the tires were very predictable and I had grip through the entire wet session although I wasn't pushing very hard (my lap times were around 10 seconds off my dry times on a 1.4 mile course). They would hydroplane a little in the deepest puddles but I was ready for it so it didn't bother me. I could have definitely gone faster than I did.

Granted, that's just one data point but I had no issues with those particular tires in the wet on that particular track on that particular day. You can see in the picture below how hard it was raining and how wet the track was.

Andy Hollis

24th February 2023, 09:27

The new RE71RS and A052 are supposed to be better, but I don't have any experience with them yet. .

These two are far better than any of the other 200tw tires in the wet...until you get to deep standing water. In fact, the Bridgestone holds the wet skid pad record on Tire Rack's test track, having just recently nudged out the Yokohama...far quicker than any of the 300tw stuff.

We ran RE71RS on our Thunderhill 25H race car this past year when it was damp 80% of the race and put a mid-pack dry car onto the overall podium.

I have personally run half-tread A052's at COTA in the rain in a very fast car and had zero issues...though I did breathe it a bunch on the back straight where rivers run across the pavement. The scariest parts were driving the car to/from the track on the highway at 60-mph. Random puddles would step the car sideways.

Which is why I still stand by the earlier-mentioned test data of ECS vs PS4S for all-around usage. Note that the ECS has been revised into the ECS02 with improvements in the areas where it was deficient to the PS4S. I haven't yet had a chance to test them, but from chatting with folks that have, I'd make them my best recommendation for a "non-freezing" do-it-all performance tire. Especially when sporting usage on the street is important.

Lab

24th February 2023, 19:48

These two are far better than any of the other 200tw tires in the wet...until you get to deep standing water. In fact, the Bridgestone holds the wet skid pad record on Tire Rack's test track, having just recently nudged out the Yokohama...far quicker than any of the 300tw stuff.

We ran RE71RS on our Thunderhill 25H race car this past year when it was damp 80% of the race and put a mid-pack dry car onto the overall podium.

I have personally run half-tread A052's at COTA in the rain in a very fast car and had zero issues...though I did breathe it a bunch on the back straight where rivers run across the pavement. The scariest parts were driving the car to/from the track on the highway at 60-mph. Random puddles would step the car sideways.

Which is why I still stand by the earlier-mentioned test data of ECS vs PS4S for all-around usage. Note that the ECS has been revised into the ECS02 with improvements in the areas where it was deficient to the PS4S. I haven't yet had a chance to test them, but from chatting with folks that have, I'd make them my best recommendation for a "non-freezing" do-it-all performance tire. Especially when sporting usage on the street is important.

Thanks Andy. Earlier there was some price advantage for Conti's compared to Ps4S. Given that both Conti ECS02 and Michelin PS4S are more or less the same, what will be your pick for do-it-all performance tire. Costco Michelin tire rebate ending on Feb 26th;)

Lab

25th February 2023, 23:36

Andy Hollis

26th February 2023, 07:29

Ordered Michelin PS4S through Costco. Surprisingly tire center guy didn't make a fuss about ordering 245 40 17 thought he knew it is not OEM or even OEM plus 1 size. :D
My experience has been that Discount tires will pretty much accommodate your requests while Costco has not neem that welcoming when you go up than your oem size. Will keep you all posted

They don't care so much about the tire size as the wheel fitment. Neither will mount outside of the "recommended wheel width" range. So the very common Miata fitment of 205's on 8's typically gets a hard pass, for example. Though I've gotten around that one by bringing in loose wheels so they don't look the car up in their database..

You'll be happy with the PS4S.

n2xlr8n

14th December 2023, 17:31

Great info, thank you all.

I'll be swapping my Nitto Neo Gens for a set of Pilot Sport 4 S tomorrow.

I wasn't terribly impressed with the Nitto sidewall (215/45/17) - it felt flimsy approaching what I perceived as short of the limit.